•Tom "Big Al" Schreiter  •Robert Butwin  •Rod Cook   •Jeffery Combs  •Jerry "DRhino" Clark •Greg Arnold  •Artemis Limpert  •Robert Blackman •Dr Zonnya •Ellie Drake - Contributing Editors

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Relationship Prospecting
An Interview by Art Jonak with Robert Butwin

A.J.  Today we’re going to help you with a situation that if you haven’t run into it yet, you’re going to.  It goes something like this:  “If you’re going to be successful in network marketing you’ve got to go out there and network with people.” 

So you ask, “How do I network with people?” 

The sponsor says “Just be yourself.” 

And you think, “I’ve been myself my whole life and that doesn’t seem to work.” 

Then the sponsor says “Well then, set some goals.” 

So you set some goals and nothing happens. 

So the sponsor says, “Be more positive.” 

So you listen to some motivational tapes but no one comes up and says
“Sign me up in your network marketing business.” 

A lot of times you get generic answers when you ask how to network.  The reality is that they just don’t know.  Today we have a special guest who is a master networker.  He can make contact with just about anybody and make them feel like his friend.  We’re going to cover with him specifically how he does it.  What to do.  What to say.  He is the author of Street Smart Networking, a regular contributor to network marketing publications, but most importantly he has built several network-marketing organizations over the past 15 years. 

I’d like to introduce Robert Butwin. 

A.J.  Before you got into network marketing you were a successful businessman with a six-figure income.  So when you got into MLM you went straight to the top right? 

R.B. I wish I could tell everyone that was the case.  When I saw this business I saw the lifestyle it could offer me.  When I first got involved I learned how I could develop more debt.  I was not successful.  What I learned from that first experience was about re-framing.  I looked at that first failure and thought if I was going to start a franchise how much would I have to put out?  I determined I would earn that money back plus interest.  I realized that if I focused on that experience it would only accentuate the problem.  I learned how to set that experience aside and focus on the vision of what I wanted to accomplish from this business which was to develop the lifestyle that I really wanted. 

Not having to be under the control of an employer.  I came from a family business that had too much family in the business.   

The other thing I learned was that in MLM you will be dealing with people that have financial challenges.  So I had to learn what that was like.  

A.J.  Now you got involved in MLM in 1986? 

I’ve noticed that you move a lot and that you don’t have a large warm market.  You don’t often buy leads.   But you always seem to know a lot of people.  How do you create people to talk to? 

R.B.  Part of that is I’ve been a victim of my success at one level.  I’ve gotten involved with a company and realized that was not a company I could go forward in.  I’ve had to learn to become very good at leading people as you go through life.  I’ve meet people every where from an airplane to trade shows to where ever I spend money.   

A.J.  You travel from city to city.  When you get to this new community are there any place you could recommend to meet people? 

R.B.  Early in my career I would consciously go out and meet people.  Now it’s just integrated into my life.  I just meet people as I go through life.  As far as places I would used to go, I’d go to trade shows – places where people would go looking to improve their lives.  A friend of mine says, “If you want to catch hungry fish then go to the place where hungry fish are feeding.” 

I don’t go out to specifically pitch somebody.  I’m really looking to get them into my funnel.  Your objective is to connect with them.  How natural communication will evolve into the opportunity to how from a health or business stand point to talk about networking.  I want to get them into my funnel and bring value to them.   

A.J.  So when you meet a new person, what do you say…what do you do? 

R.B.  I could say something like; “You look like you could use more energy.  I have a great product that could give you more stamina.  But I also have the flexibility to switch to the income approach.  The message I really want to convey is, “I can show you how to develop an exit strategy from the workplace and the government will subsidize you in doing it.  After whatever opening that we have my message would be where ever they lead me.  As you ask questions, they’re going to give you the road map.  Specifically on how you’re going to package to them.  I try to continually ask questions.  To let them do most of the communication.   

Example, if I’m talking to Mike and it’s close to the weekend I might ask him, “Do you have any exciting plans for the weekend?  If it’s Monday I might say did you do anything exciting this past weekend?  You’ll get those people with a twinkle in their eye you’ll get the idea that they don’t really lke their job and that gives me a chance to go into the business approach from there.   

A.J.  How do you transition from creating conversation into an invite to a meeting? 

R.B.  I really don’t invite them to meetings.  What this business is about is really recommending and promoting something that we know has value. 

My objective is to share some information that will somehow make a difference in their life.  Be it the product or the business.  I look at every interaction like the letter “Y”.  You have two roads to go down.  You have to choose the most appropriate road.  A product sample or a tape or take the income approach but there again the same methodology will apply.  What I want them to do is take a look at information.  If it’s a business opportunity I like Keith Schreiter’s book.  As people enter your funnel people are thinking, “Can I do this?” and that depends on how you interact with them. 

The whole key in this business is duplication so everything that I’m doing is to set them up so I can present information.   

A.J.  So if you just met Mike and you create some rapport, you start asking him questions do you then make that transition and start presenting product or opportunity in your first meeting or is it in a follow-up as you create a relationship or is it different every time? 

R.B. It’s different every time.  The key is having flexibility with specific intent.  For example, it was probably six months from the time we met before we determined that we would do business.   

A.J.  So the intent is to create a friendship.  At which point you determine as a networker the time to bring up the product or business opportunity? 

R.B.  Exactly.  It’s what I learned from Tom Schreiter.  The key to this business is that you are a master sorter.  I have to determine if I even want Mike in my business.  Is he the kind of person I want to hang out with?  Do I want to party, vacation and spend time with this person? 

A.J.  I’ve seen you at different events and you’ll be in the hallway or outside the hotel and you’ve always got one or two people around you.  I come out 20 minutes later and you’ve got two or three totally different people in conversation.  What do you talk about when you meet people in a professional situation?  Is there a different kind of conversation there than when you go see Mike in his card store? 

R.B.  Sure.  For example, if it’s personal development you might ask them what they think of the seminar.  Do they go to a lot of these events?  The objective is to ask questions because they will give you the road map when it’s time to present your information.  I want to gather information.  To create that friendship. 

The other key that I’ve learned to give them something of value.  It could be a reprint of an article or an audiotape that has nothing to do with network marketing but still relevant to the communication. 

I ask myself, what can I share with someone that will endear them to me.  That will help them understand that I’m not there just for business.  From your friends your determine who your business associates will be. 

A.J.  There’s a book by Harvey Mackay entitled Swimming with the Sharks.  In there he’s got the rule of 66.  When you meet someone try to find out these 66 things about them so that when you can create that relationship.  After the conversation do you take their card and quickly write down what you learned?  How do you keep all this organized?  How do you stay in touch? 

R.B.  Yes, I will take their business card.  My business card is a fold-over copy of a million-dollar bill.  Inside is a message that has a reason for them to get back to me.  It may be something to the effect that I help people create supplemental income.  If they get back to me I’ll give them a free book, tape etc. 

I jot down key points of information.  I use ACT as a data management system.   

A.J.  How do you know when to get back in touch with this person? 

R.B.  Normally I want to get back to them within a week.  At the point that I reconnect with that person I determine when I want to get back to them again.  It could be a month; it could be six months.  I might end up “dripping” on them, sending them two or three articles before I call them back. 

A.J.  You mean articles that are relevant to their passion or to your network marketing business? 

R.B.  Any one of those or maybe just a joke.  I want to send things that create more rapport so they are more receptive when I communicate back. 

A.J.  So odds are that if you sent me a hilarious joke and then called me next week that I would remember you over someone who didn’t send me that joke.  It’s an easier way to create that “know, like and trust” with your prospect. 

R.B.  The whole key is creating trust. 

A.J.  What happens when you’re trying to build a relationship with people over the phone? 

R.B.  The only thing that’s different is that when I’m meeting someone in person I always look people in the eye.  Obviously on the phone that isn’t there but you want to be listening how to create some kind of commonality.  It could be a place you’ve both been, an interest in sports etc.  Something to anchor them back to.  I always focus on how can I bring value.  How can I give them something?  My whole philosophy in this business is give.  The universe has an amazing way of giving back.  If I always focus on the better interest.  It’s the underlying theme of everything I do. 

If you come across like, “I want you to go out and sell these products for me” you’re coming across wrong.  People somehow psychologically pick that up.  But if you’re coming from a perspective, “how can I give to you, how can I make a difference, they also pick that up. 

A.J. That’s an excellent point.  Finding their passion.  Making a difference in their life.  And if nothing else they may lead you to someone. 

R.B.  Yes.  They may end up being an excellent referral source.  You do it – not because you expect an immediate response but because over a period of time the law of averages will bring it back to you many fold.  If nothing else, you feel good about yourself. 

A.J.  I’ve heard it said that you invest about 30% of your income back into your downline organization.   

R.B.  In the beginning stages you’re going to actually reinvest more.  It’s like a rocket.  To get a rocket off the ground it takes much more energy.  If you’re really going to get your business going to its full potential it’s going to take that thrust.  As long as I feel that I can continually move that business forward I’m going to continually invest 30%.  I’ve got one of two choices: I can either pay taxes on it or I can invest back into people that show me that they’ve got the intent to be successful in this business and they’re going to do it.   

A.J.  When you invest the 30% I assume that it’s not in cash prizes.   What does the investment look like?  

R.B.  Here are a couple nuggets: First of all you want to have the proper resources going into your business and those resources come in five different forms: 

Someone’s life energy.

People’s contacts

Money

Creativity and insight – direct and indirect 

This business is based upon geometric progression which means you get three people who get three people who get three people and it gets larger.  Well the same thing happens coming from the other side as far as resources coming back.  So you want leveraged resources.  What I’ve learned is that if I pay for you to do an ad you’re not going to think as much about that ad than if you put some of your own money out of your pocket.  So what I will do is maybe split the cost of the ad.   

A.J.  How do you determine which people in your group are going to get your support?  Who are you going to help and who are you going to leave to fend for themselves? 

R.B.  You have a responsibility to the person you bring into the business.  It depends on where you are in the compensation plan and what you need to do to develop the structure that will allow you to get where you want to go.   

A.J.  Okay so you say I’m going to support the people I sponsor.  And I need to get to a certain level in the compensation plan so I need to build the legs that will help me get there so I need to pour my resources into them.  Or maybe you look down your genealogy and you see someone with a spark in his or her eye.  Do you call someone like that that and say; “Can I help?” 

R.B.  It goes back to what I said earlier: leveraged resources.  Obviously there’s going to be someone between myself and that person so you want to use leveraged resources.  I might go back to that person and say; There’s a person in between you and myself.  I will give 10% of the person below you that’s in between us gets 30% and will match that.  So you want to take a look at getting other people that are in between involved because they’re going to be making money off that person.   

A.J.  Here’s how that might work: Robert, you might sponsor Mike.  Mike might sponsor me.  I might have a group and you guys may say,  “We want to help Art’s group.”   So you might say something like this: “Hey Art, take 30% of your monthly check and Mike, take 30% of your check, Robert will take 30% of his check we’ll pool that together and help build that leg.  Is that how that would work? 

R.B. Something like that.  The only difference is because Mike is closer and he’s going to be making more money I might take 20% and Mike would have 30%.  

A.J.  So you look at the compensation plan structure – who’s going to benefit how and then break down the percentages that way. 

R.B.  That’s correct. 

A.J.  In essence I would end up with almost 100% of a check that I could use to build my group for that month.   

R.B.  You take a look at this business and what you’re looking for is someone else’s time, energies and effort.  What ever you need to do to help that person get up and succeed.  The only way you make money is helping someone else succeed in this business. 

A.J.  A lot of companies have really bland marketing materials. Did you develop your own marketing materials? 

R.B.  I’ve never developed my own marketing materials.  I’ve used what’s either there in the field or some generic tool.  I’ll help a group of distributors develop marketing materials but I’ve never actually developed my own. 

A.J.  Have you done any generic materials that you let your group use? 

R.B.  Definitely.  They can get those through KAAS, Club Rhino has got them I don’t actually sell them myself.  I’ve got a couple of tapes, The Secret of the Money Funnel, Getting Started.  I’m developing generic tools. 

A.J.  And you did that so you can train your group faster?  What brought about you saying “I’ve got this material I’m training one on one, I’m teaching it in meetings.  Maybe I should put it on tape so they can learn it faster.”  Any benefits of putting it on tape or writing a book? 

R.B.  Part of what you’re doing is selling yourself.  It helps from a promotional standpoint but it doesn’t mean that everyone has to go out and develop their own tools.  One of the biggest reasons why I like to use tools is 1. It brings consistency to the message.  2. Beyond the consistency of the message you look at what your time is worth?  If you’ve got a big goal and you’re looking to make 10, 20, or 30 thousand dollars a month  - I’d rather give someone a tape or book and use that as a barometer to determine their level of interest rather than me spend my time sharing my insights.  It’s much more duplicable.  

A.J.  Robert, you’ve been a part of at least two of the largest audio marketing campaigns – massive, millions of audio tapes.  What are the pros and cons of doing that?  What’s important in an audio marketing campaign? 

R.B.  As I mentioned, in the beginning I was not successful. Even though I was an extrovert it was difficult for me to talk to people.  But from day one I knew I had no alternative but to be successful in this business.  So I continually refined my process in how I was communicating with people.  I also realized that the majority of people might not have my tenacity.  What the tape campaign does is have the phone ringing.   

The key is you want to have a method for a person who doesn’t feel comfortable going to their warm market although my belief is that everyone should go to their warm market. 

So you want to develop a campaign that will have the phone ringing.  That’s the advantage of a tape campaign. 

A.J.  Describe your best tape campaign.  What were the differences between the successes and the failures? 

R.B. There are several things you have to look at.  1.You must have a quality tape, one that will work in the market place.   

A.J.  What would that be?  An hour?  15 minutes?  Is it the content? 

R.B.  Content.  I’ve looked at different marketing studies that say longer will out perform shorter.   Ultimately you need to get your message across.  A quality message that will someone wanting to call you back after they listen to it. 

A.J.  So it’s not whether it’s a green tape or a red tape but what’s on the tape. 

R.B. One of the biggest things is the headline on the tape.  It’s like the headline of a print ad.  The whole purpose is to have you read that first paragraph.  The whole thing is that when it arrives in the mail will they pop it into the player.   

A.J.  And the first thing they hear will determine whether they listen to the tape or not.  How do you know when you’ve got a winner?  Do you start testing or do you say let’s cut this tape and send out a million pieces.   

R.B.  You listen intuitively to what might work in the market but then you always test – 1000 to 2000 pieces to a couple different lists to determine if it will work.  You must take the emotion and logic out of what you think will work and what the market tells you what really works.  

A.J.  A good example of that was a tape you did that sounded like it was recorded in a living room with a number of distributors just talking to a recorder on the table.   

R.B.  The reason it was successful was because the listener had the feeling they were a fly on the wall and were eves dropping on a conversation.  It grabbed their attention and once they got into the tape the quality of content made them want to listen to the end. 

A.J.  The only way you would have known whether it would work was by sending out a few of the tapes.  Did it happen by accident or was it specifically designed as a mail out tape? 

R.B.  When we started off it wasn’t really being mass marketed.  The person doing the tape with me had an intuition that it would work in the market place.  We followed our intuition, put some money into it and started testing a couple thousand and we found out it was right.  The market place responded very favorably. 

A.J.  So, one use of the tape is simply a hand out.  You’re talking with a prospect and rather than going into the whole conversation you just give them the tape and say something like, what’s on this tape is making a lot of people a fortune or making them look or feel better.  You let the tape do the talking. 

The other way of marketing is that you buy mailing lists.  What are the advantages of buying lists?  What are the disadvantages?   

R.B.  The key when you’re doing a mailing list is the more you mail to the list you’re going to get a diminishing return.  So if you’re going to do a mailing list you’ve got to have very tight control of who mails to that list.  When we were doing a lot of those tape mailings other distributors in the same company were mailing to the same list.  With a good list and a good tape the tape system will always work in the market place.   

A.J.  If someone buys a list and they have a tape and they mail to that list an nothing happens – no response how do you handle that with a distributor? 

R.B.  First of all, we test the list ourselves.  We never we never allow a list and tape that we feel would be a questionable rate of return.  If the return is less than we would expect then we have helped compensate them. That last thing you want is to allow something like that to blow out a distributor.  We understand the value of finding distributors so we might help them by subsidizing another project. 

A.J.  If you’re brand new to tape mailing what I’d say is that it’s probably not a good idea to spend your downline’s money on guesses.  It’s a good idea to get a professional, someone who has done this before. 

Robert would it be easier and less expensive to send out a post card to the list and say, if you want this tape ask for it and then send it out or is it better to just send out the tape? 

R.B.  There are many different ways to do the business.  A post card would work.  I drove here today and saw signs advertising business opportunities.  Whatever you do, you want to test it.  Whatever market strategy you choose, TEST and REFINE.  You’re going to get a response and that’s my control.  You always want to figure out, how can I beat my control?  In the mean time you want a variety of ways your customers are getting in touch with you. 

A.J.  In your opinion Robert are there lots of ways that work and you simply choose the one you’re most comfortable with or when you sponsor someone would you say here are the things you need to do first then look elsewhere. 

R.B.  First of all, I’ve found that most people don’t have enough self-confidence.  They don’t feel comfortable talking to people they don’t know.  That’s the way I started.  It’s still the way I do business.  The thing about the tape system is that it has the phone ringing.  It’s painless.  There’s no rejection.   

I believe in having as many irons in the fire that are cost effective.  I still go out and meet people and I continually communicate because I need to keep my saw sharp.   

A.J.  So you’d have to determine by the distributor whether they are an outgoing person like yourself or if they are someone who really needs the phone ringing.   

R.B.  There are also a number of companies that sell leads.  You can find ways to talk to people.  The question is, how hungry are you?  What is your real intent to succeed.  There are people all around.  Everyone needs what we have to offer.  We’re offering an alternative source of income that would become an exit strategy from the workplace.  If you’ll talk with your employer and change your deduction the government will subsidize.  According to the IRS there are two categories of people: entrepreneurs and employees.  If you change your deductions by two (check with your employer first) from day one you’re going to see a positive cash flow from your business. 

A.J.  Robert, if I needed to get in touch with someone you’re one of the top five people I’d call.  You’re within one or two phone calls of just about anyone in the world.  Just out of curiosity, how many people do you contact on a weekly basis, not just prospects but people that you stay in touch with? 

R.B.  I’ve never really thought about it.  Somewhere between 30 to 100.  Staying in touch with people that I consider friends.  Not because I’m there to do business.  Just comparing notes.   

A.J.  That’s really kept you in touch with everything that’s going on.  And it probably has a whole lot of referrals coming your way. 

R.B.  I’ve had people search me out or send referrals to my because the image I want to put into the marketplace is that 1. I’m a person that people can trust. 2. I’m there to support people.  The whole thing goes back to the book Positioning  at what conscious level do you want to position yourself in the minds of the people you’re communicating with?   

A.J.  This is more of a personal question.  You got involved in network marketing and once involved met your wife Bonnie.  It looks like you have a very happy marriage.  A lot of times we run across networkers whose spouse is not that supportive.  When you’re out talking to prospects do you insist that if they are married the husband and wife are there together when you do the presentation? 

R.B.  Personally I don’t think the other person necessarily has to be there.  What I think is the most important is that you sell the other person is that the reason they are doing the business is for the spouse that’s not involved.  I know that a lot of people teach that the spouse needs to be there but you’re going to have a connection with one person.  If they are going to talk to their spouse, maybe on the second time around you may want to at least connect with that person but as I said they need to understand that they are the reason their spouse is doing the business.  To improve their lifestyle.  To spend more time with them.  That's the biggest sales job in this whole business.    

Let me share with you how that related to myself.  I told you how that in the beginning stages about the massive debt that I created in this business and this was shortly after I met the lady who would become my wife.  We had a very good relationship.  One day we were walking across the street from where she lived.  We were walking in this beautiful wilderness and I turned to her and said the is nothing or no one that will keep me from succeeding in this business.  I communicated my intent to her.  When I communicated that intent to her she realized she had one of two decisions: She could oppose me or align with me.  She chose to align with me and we’ve had a great team relationship. 

A.J.  There is a certain type of person that’s attracted to network marketing and odds are one spouse is not that type of person.  But as you shared, that one sales job of convincing the spouse that you’re really building the business with them in mine is so important.    

R.B.  That’s why it’s important to be up front with your employer and change your deductions.  You spouse will see an increase in take-home pay from day one. 

A.J.  Any resources you could recommend for people to educate themselves on how to immediately see a profit in their networking business just by taking advantage of the tax situation?  

R.B.  Sandy Botkin has a great tape series.  My whole life I’m able to write off with this business because I’m always doing business.  I integrate everything in a way that will allow me to legally write it off.   

A.J.  Robert, I noticed in your group that you have a tremendous loyalty.  I seems like the dropout is real low because you’ve created that bond.  Are there any special things that you do with your leaders to create that relationship with you that’s even stronger than with the company? 

R.B.  A lot of it is staying in touch and focusing on what you can do to contribute to their wellbeing.  They know that you’re there.  That your total interest is to support them.  I’ve talked with a lot of top leaders in this industry and there seems to be two opposite philosophies: How much money can I make off my downline? Compared to how can I help my downline to become better?  I see leaders who make a lot of money because they sell support tools.  Compared to making sure that they get the best buys and help them bring their business forward. 

A.J.  Again, it goes back to step one.  When you meet someone you are looking for ways to contribute to them.  And when they join your business you’re just doing the same thing only on a higher level because now the relationship is even stronger.   

Any parting thoughts you’d like to share on building their business.  Some may have two distributors.  Others may have thousands.  You’ve been around so many years and have been on both levels.  You started with a few and then have had tens of thousands of distributors on your team. 

R.B.  First of all it all boils down to the fact that you know you’ve got something to contribute to other people – and that comes from your heart.  Be sincere.  Be honest.  Be truthful.  As you go forward in this business know that you deserve to have it all.  That the right people are there. 

I tell the story of a sandbox.  You see me bury a diamond in the sand.  Then I give you a flour sifter and ask you to see if you can find the diamond.  You take a sift of the sand and there is no diamond.  The question is are you going to take a second scoop?   

A.J.  Of course – and quickly. 

R.B.  Because you know what’s there.  If you know that there are people out there who are going to be receptive to this message.  That need this business.  That understand that this is the only business that will ultimately allow them to gain the free time to live a life that has more meaning.  So they can make a difference.  Then you are acting from a whole different perspective.  That’s the message I want to let people know about.  Come from contribution.  There’s and old saying, “You make a living by what you get.  You make a life by what you give.”  It’s how you give back into life.  

A.J.  Powerful.  Robert I appreciate you spending time with me here today.  What I always recommend is to fast forward this tape and listen to it again because you may have missed something.   

R.B.  When you listen to any tape after you’ve listened to it two or three times, the tapes you feel are real good, mark that you want to come back to them say six months from now because your consciousness is always shifting.  Where you are today compared to where you’ll be six months from today – a lot of things that are flying over your head at this point – but you know there is good stuff on that particular tape.  After you’ve listened to it two, three, four or five times put a gold star on it and come back to it in six months. 

A.J.  Happy prospecting!

Robert Butwin's successful career has earned him the respect and admiration of colleagues throughout the profession. He is active in a leadership role with several organizations, including the MLMIA (Multi-Level Marketing International Association), which has twice named him "Distributor of the Year." He has been a contributing writer for many professional trade journals. He is the author of the best-selling book, Street Smart Networking and he has produced many MLM training CDs. Robert lives the life of his dreams in the beautiful wine country of Northern California with his wife, Bonnie and children, Marc and Randi. He walks his talk and enjoys an incredible lifestyle.  Robert can be contacted at robert@streetsmartlive.com